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Thread: KaKaRoTo on The PSGroove / PSFreedom PS3 Payload Mess

  1. #71
    IslaTurbine Guest
    So how do we play a game without a disc? Transformers War for Cybertron won't load without a disc.

    - running a Teensy++2.0, OM 1.17.1, fat Ps3, 500gb internal HDD.

  2. #72
    Join Date
    Apr 2005


    Quote Originally Posted by PS3 News View Post
    I have now updated the first post with KaKaRoTo's "PS3: Why I don’t like the Hermes payload" rant as well
    And here is Hermes reply, for those following:

    I remind you that this is a thread PAYLOAD DEVELOPMENT and not make adjustments to it to different systems, that must be occupied other in their respective threads.

    On the other hand, this payload is not the same as that used Kakarot, which, if you are inserting hex and you do funny things, do not be surprised and what is required is for someone to compile and hang it in your thread concerned.

    That said, happened to handle other issues I've seen out there

    Why do not you upload the project to github?

    For many reasons:

    First, it was born because the payload of psgroove was not public (or at least I did not see the source code) and that individuals were limited to work in the payload without the ability to load games. So I poured port1_config_descriptor and disassembly, helped by the comments in on the payload and AerialX contribution that ends up in charge of some games without disk.

    The idea was to have a source that could build and improve, without restrictions of moral or legal to affect other people, we posed a hindrance to those who think differently or do not have such restrictions and would like to make our contribution sand.

    On the other hand, do not think it's fair (or as we say in plan colleague: "legal") add a parallel psgroove github, when the original authors already have it that way, or think it is fair to add my copyright as author a payload that is not mine, since the original authors are part of what is known as "psjailbreak." From my point of view, the payload code belongs to some anonymous gentlemen with a copyright doubtful, but still belongs to them and I help with some improvements as a user and hobbyist programmer (non-profit course), simply. And therefore I can not (or should not) add copyright, but I feel very free to add improvements.

    If others want to, and even change the code to have the excuse to do so, it is their right, but I think you can not foul the GPL for example, by replacing the code with a license and payload which is not well put a "Copyright Hermes", unless the original team does, and that allows me to be co-authored with my changes. Not if the original authors will like the idea that other hand metamos your code, but it's not like they have been very respectful and legal and at least I bring improvements and I take it, just from other code without .

    I also think the scene should be a collective effort, not group, when a group is formed, this implies a restriction on the participation of other users and a constraint on development.

    For example, suppose that tomorrow I hang the project on github. Who can raise their contributions?. I give only to those who leave and since I administer, all those ideas that do not marry my philosophy, and ultimately could be added would be in the same

    A clear example is the following: I have a work philosophy that Kakarot for example, does not share do you think we can cooperate in this regard?. I think it's an emphatic no, he can include what you like about my code and I can include what I like hers, but both follow different paths and have conflicting ideas. Therefore the github not work.

    So simple. Rar all-inclusive seems to me a very good solution to facilitate the development and portability of the payload to certain people, of course, can make your patches or changed sources, and even follow his own path in some respects. The github would be nice if this really was open source friendly and had a willingness to work all in the same direction and this had an inordinate size, but here at the moment, have not even been input to the payload beyond adding a few "pokes" for games and have a. S that is less than 25KB uncompressed, I do not think that is big problem

    Why not support other versions of firmware?

    There are two reasons: first, that I have only a PS3 and has the 3.41 firmware. The second is that I think is a mistake to work on past versions, since they offer less compatibility with games, the more difficulty to find patches and in the end, only serves to multiply the work x 10 to get worse outcome.

    I know some do it to keep Linux, etc, but in life you can not have everything and in my opinion, is an illogical attitude to work for example, to 3.15, when there are games that we call for 3.42 and it seems more logical to move forward and focus on knowing what he's doing the 3.41 firmware (which is standard) than anything else.

    peek / poke, syscall syscall 36 and 8

    Explain to these high need for these syscalls, almost seems to me perogruyo: my frankly, the syscalls to peek and poke do not like, because only move data of 8 bytes and are very simplistic, frankly. But, although I have a better solution (memcpy by syscall8) the golden rule must have for any developer, is the backwards compatibility where possible. Also poke and peek lv2 windows are used by some and it seems a bit stupid limit.

    For this reason the 36 syscall should not be deleted, as manager open while the other lets you switch easily, we are passing the buck to those who develop the program, which will have to deal with those who can not change the syscall 36 (which psjailbrak have, for example) and limit ourselves in the event that this team take something that we can harness all.

    The syscall 8 is a very useful toolbox. Despite the opinion of some, I think it is so difficult to understand that it is essentially a switch / case that joins other functions to that syscall and syscall8.h enough explanation of its operation, except that anyone can ask about it here they do not bite .

    The syscall 8 as I explained at the time, lets you copy, fill with zeros, perform routines in the kernel or even redirect devices and files using a data structure, as explained in syscall8.h

    But has three interesting features: a mode allows us to determine that this is the access permissions and the other two allow us to disable or enable the use of syscalls we use.

    So syscall8_disable (key), allows applications to hide poke / peek / syscall 36 syscall itself even that only works 8 syscall8_enable expecting a (key) right.

    The 64-bit key is used to enable only possible syscalls again with the correct key and thus prevent an application or game, brute force, be easy to draw the correct key, as it also limits the number of retries.

    It seems to me a hell of solution to avoid dangerous situations of syscalls applications that allow access to LV2 is a shame that some people seem to not understand the use that have these functions and that the only rule out that no I have written a book with the functions in assembler to say that even a neophyte like me ppc assembler, I would understand (and more relying on the description in syscall8 on its operation).

    Why stay in 0x7ff000 the payload? Is not it dangerous?

    I'm staying there because we do not have space to store the code. So we have two options: either modify the code to fit in its original place, depriving us of potential or stayed elsewhere that does not seem to bother, because the code is just as LV2 2 MB before to house the payload.

    Dangerous is everything in life and if someone appeals to a game back of the payload crashes, perhaps due to reasons other than to house the code in one place in all the dumps I've done, is occupied by zeros (if seen otherwise, there would not have chosen to include the code)

    And I am not of those who do things without most, if not quite the soil tested and go into games and go out and relaunch others eye. And the truth is that since I use open manager (the original, not those who are using you who do not have source code and include the same crap that alter something, just the option to turn on / off key), with all OMANXXXXX folder games, I had no crashes rare, except in games that require hard, if not entered, as is obvious.

    Obviously, I have all games on the market and I can not tell if there are exceptions that break the rule, but most likely a game pete for anything other than the position of the payload in the kernel.


  3. #73
    farenheit Guest
    Here's a more refined translation
    May i remind you all that this is a thread of payload development, and not adaptations of it to different devices (i.e. iPods etc ) that should be taken care of in its respectful threads.
    Anyways, this payload is not equal to that of kakaroto’s, if you are inserting it via hex and misbehaves it wouldn’t be a surprise and what is required is that someone compiles it and post it around in some thread.
    This said, lets continue to other matters.

    Why don’t you post this at github?
    Multiple reasons:
    First, this was born due to the fact that the payload used by psgroove was not public ( at least I didn’t saw source) and because certain people, limited themselves to work on the payload without the ability to run backups. So I took port1_config_descriptor and disassembled it, with help of comments on the about the payload and collaborations of AerialX , this resulted in us being able to launch backups.
    The idea was to have a source code that could be compiled and upgrade, without moral and or legal restrictions which could affect other people and let some of us who think different about this legal stuff, and let us do some contributions.
    Anyways, I don’t think it’s fair or “legal” to add a psgroove parallel at github, with the owners having already one posted, and I don’t think it’s fair that I add my copyright as an author of a payload that does not belongs to me, due to the fact that the original developers form part of that thing known as psjailbreak. From my point of view the source code of the payload belongs to some anonymous people with a not so trusted copyright but it is theirs, and I contribute with some upgrades and not taking advantage of others people code.

    If others want to do it and even change the code they are in their whole right to do it, but I think we should not be throwing dirt at the GPL, for example, posting payloads code with that license and neither is good adding a Hermes Copyright, unless the original team does it and that would made me co author with my changes. I don’t think original authors like the idea of some other people meddling in their source code, that said I also don’t think they have been very respectful and legal, at least I bring upgrades and not take advantage of others code.

    Also I think the scene should be a collective work, not that of a team. When a team is made, a restriction is made to all outside users in meddling with the code.

    Lets suppose tomorrow I would post the project at github, Who will be able to upload contributions? Well easy only the persons I decide, and basically all that ideas that I don’t like wouldn’t be taken into account, they would not be added and in the end we would have the same problem as we do now.

    A clear example is this: I have a philosophy of work that kakarotos doesn’t shares, Think we would be able to work in that way? That’s an absolute NO, he can include what he likes of my code, and I can include what I like of his code but WE follow different paths and have different ideas. As a result github would not work

    So for me a simple .rar with everything included should be a good solution to facilitate development and portability of the payload to some people, and basically they can apport their own patches or sources and even follow their own paths. Github would be great if this was really open source friendly and people had the will to work all in one same sense, this would have an outstanding size basically, but here right now at this post there have not been contributions made to the payload, just some pokes to some games and pass an .s file that weights around 25kb without being compressed, I don’t think that’s a big deal.

    Why don’t I support older firmware?

    Two reasons for that: first, I only have 1 ps3 and it has firm 3.41, second, I think it’s a mistake to work older firms when we should be worrying about newer versions of firmware, why because older firmware offer less compatibility with games and they give the most difficult time to work around this bugs at the end it only increases the work 10 times more.
    I know some of you don’t update because you want to keep linux , etc. but sometimes in life we just can’t have all we want, and In my opinion its illogical to work for example firm 3.15, when there are already games asking for firmware 3.42 , and I think it’s more logical to seat and examinee, study really well what firmware 3.41 does.

    Peek/poke, syscall 36 and syscall 8

    I don’t really like these peek and poke calls , they just move 8 bytes of data and are just too simple. Even though I have a better solution ( memcpy using syscall 8) rule of thumb here that every dev should have is having compatibility. Also poke and peek calls are the windows lv2 some uses and think its absurd to limit us.

    For that matter syscall 36 must not suppress, even though open manager allows us to change it for other one real easy, we are passing the buck on to the dev making his program, this dev will have to work out with those who can’t change to syscall 36 ( those who have psjailbreak for example) and also limits us in the case that that team posts something that we all could benefit from.

    Syscall 8 is a toolbox very useful. Despite someone’s opinion, I don’t think its too difficult to comprehend what it’s basically a switch/case that connects other functions to that syscall and in syscall8.h can be found a lot of explanation of its purpose, also anyone can ask of it here I don’t bite lol.

    Syscall 8 allows us to copy, fill with zeros, run kernel routines and even redirect devices and files using a data structure, as explained on syscall8.h

    But it has 3 interesting functions: one allows us to fix the access permits, and the other two are that we can enable or disable the use of the syscalls we are using.

    So syscall8_disable(key) allows us to hide poke/peek/ syscall36 apps, and even syscall 8 which onlye works waiting for a syscall8_enable(key).

    The 64 bit key is used so it is only possible to habilitate syscalls again with the right key, and this way we avoid an app or game find the right key by brute force also this way we can limit number of intents.

    I think it’s a stupid reason to prevent the supposed dangerous uses of those syscalls which allow lv2 access and it’s a pitty that there are still people who have not understood the use of those functions and discard them just because I haven’t written a book with these functions, man even a neophyte like me in ppc assembler would understand it

    Why you allocate payload on 0x7ff000? Isn’t that dangerous?

    I allocate it there because we don’t have empty space. So we got 2 choices: we modify the code so it will only fit on its original spot, taking out our possibilities or we allocate it somewhere else where it should not bother us, given that the lv2 code ends like 2 MB before we allocated our payload.

    Dangerous is everything in life, and if someone mentions, when returning from a game to the XMB payload hangs well it must not be to the place where we allocate our code, I have tested and verified it many times and all there is in those spots are pure zeros, If I had seen something else there basically I would not have chosen that address.

    And I’m not of those who does things and nothing else, I do test all my apps and I go in and out of games launch and re launch test test test. Truthfully since ive been using open manager ( the original one not those with a lot of bugs made by other people without source code) with all games on folder OMANXXXX I have not had any weird hangs only with games which require disc, basically if disc is not inserted.

    Obviously I don’t have all games on the market and thus I cannot know if there are excemptions breaking the rules, but its more likely that a game will hang or something similar due to another reason, not because or where the payload was allocated.


  4. #74
    Join Date
    Apr 2005


    Here is also the latest PSFreedom (with PL3) from KaKaRoTo via prairie:

    iPhone 2G/3G:
    iPod Touch 1G:

  5. #75
    nyxiuz Guest

    I'm using my n900 to jb my ps3. Is there any new psfreedom or other jb software for it ?

    I'm using the oldest psfreedom (patched).

  6. #76
    marc2590 Guest
    Does anyone have a working PL3.8xv for the TI-84???

  7. #77
    megarun2010 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by megarun2010 View Post
    Well sol here's Hermes V4 payload for TI-84 and i must say it's flawless

    I must say his name says it all by poolshak
    does anyone have these files, cause this is not the one i uploaded.. it will not work anymore

  8. #78
    psp1mp Guest
    i don't fully understand what the difference between the pl3 and the hermes packages are. can anyone shed some light on this? i tried both packages and i prefer the hermes package due to its compatibility and ease of use. but pl3, there isn't much documentation on it that i see

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